If you missed it, last week the Roosh V Forum became a place where discussion of casual sex and hooking up was no longer allowed.
And, to be honest, that was a large part of all discussions over there for quite a long time, though, in fairness, it also had become quite a bit more geared towards longer-term relationships, with many members also starting to settle down and have families.
I’ve had a few emails and private WhatsApp conversations with people asking for my opinion.
While I shared it in the thread itself (see page 1 and 2), I figured it would be worth expanding into a longer post.
Here’s the link with the full discussion, and the announcement reads as follows:
“Due to my recent turn to faith, my sense of morality is becoming based on the Bible. I’ve stopped a lot of behaviors that I’ve used to do and am in the process of making other changes. I’ve also realized that the majority of my published materials and online platforms lead men into sin or enable them to partake in sin. I no longer want this to occur, so I am implementing two new rules on the forum that are effective on June 1, 2019.
1. You can no longer discuss fornication or pre-marital sexual activity
Things you can discuss:
- Meeting women with the intention of entering a relationship with them
- Attracting women
- Going on dates
- How to enter relationships
- Using technology to meet women
- How to maintain relationships
- Sexual activity while married
Things you can no longer discuss:
- Meeting women with the intention of fornicating with them
- How to bang
- Physical intimacy with women you’re not married to beyond the act of kissing
- Maintaining relationships with multiple women (i.e. spinning plates)
- Cheating on significant others (adultery)
- Using technology to fornicate
- Discussion of travel destinations which are best for fornication
- Stories of sexual activity while not married
- Promoting masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, etc.
2. You can no longer use pornographic or vulgar language
- Refrain from using terms like “I fucked her” or “I want to fuck her.” Do not describe sexual encounters or situations that are beyond the act of kissing unless you are married.
- Refrain from using profanity if a cleaner word would suffice.
These rules will cause great change to the forum
The above two rules will mostly apply to the Game and Travel subforums. I know that I may lose some of you because of these rules, but I can no longer help men lead a life of sin, because doing so is weighing on my conscious.
I created this forum in 2008 to help men fornicate, so I don’t know if it’s possible to “retrofit” it for another purpose, but it’s worth a try. In the meanwhile, I will gradually lock threads that break these new rules if they become active. The fully updated rules that new members see is stickied in the Everything Else forum. It can be viewed here.”
I’ve got 6 points to discuss.
1. I Owe A Great Debt to Roosh
I wrote the following on the forum…
“Yes, you are going to lose a lot [of followers]. But you know this.
Everything comes full circle.
Take you, for example. You’ve gone from fornicating casually, and often, towards your current path of spirituality. It’s come full circle.
Take myself, for example. If you hadn’t given me a shot to write at ROK a few years ago, I wouldn’t have built my business, been able to move out of the degeneracy of the west, and be able to maintain a solid LTR for 3+ years. But, make no doubt about it, I *had* to go through the crazy years in order to be able to sit where I am today. It’s come full circle.
I understand the spirituality thing, however, the world has changed faster in the last decade than ever before – at a multiple many times over. At some point, religious teachings are going to have to be modified and adapted to the modern time.
I would understand gradually beginning a shift and gradually applying some new rules and standards. I’d say that longer-term relationship discussions are much more common and accepted here than say, 2015.
There aren’t many places that men can learn the skills needed to survive in today’s modern world.
This drastic of a change seems like it is going to rob many men of their own chance to come full circle.
That’s my $0.02, and obviously I hope that things work out and you find peace.”
I stand by this.
I owe a lot to Roosh. I’ve never met the man, but he gave me a real crack at the whole blogging thing back in 2013. I would not be where I am today without that opportunity, plain and simple.
Otherwise, I stand by what I wrote on that forum thread, too. This decision will rob (some) men of their opportunity to come full circle.
But, I think what is really important is that point about religious teachings being out of date.
On one hand, can you really rewrite the Bible?
On the other, can you really not at some point?
The world has shifted so drastically in the last decade…and will only continue to shift faster and faster. Hoping to find and marry a virgin is not a realistic option for most men in the world. The Bible, and other religious teachings, do not account for this. Even places in Eastern Europe are rapidly becoming more and more westernized, devoid of the more chaste girls the Bible speaks of (read this for an example).
At some point we need to live in reality.
2. A Locker Room Dies
There aren’t a lot of places that men can congregate these days, in-person, and have the good old “locker room talk”.
This is even more true online, with men’s discussion spaces constantly under supervision, being shut down, etc.
Somehow, RVF had survived most of this, and it’s sad to see that a place where just about any discussion could be had (and needed to be), no longer allows that.
Which leads us to the next point…free speech.
3. This Is Not “Censorship”, But Treads That Way
There are some people in the thread that are criticizing Roosh for hypocrisy. For those who don’t know, he’s been banned on PayPal and other payment processors, and I think been banned from some social media platforms as well, for his views.
To that, I say:
Comparing a platform like Facebook with billions of users, and that is publicly traded, versus a small, private forum with a membership of ~40,000 people are not on the same planet.
The forum is privately owned and operated, and is barely even monetized.
I have little doubt that Roosh has run the forum at a “loss” for many years now, given the amount of time it likely takes to moderate the place.
So yes, he is completely within his rights to run it how he sees fit (and keep in mind, the forum has always had rules, so there wasn’t unlimited free speech).
And yet, at the same time, I can also agree – is a bit of hypocrisy given how much he has campaigned for free speech over the last few years.
That said, it’s still not the same as Facebook censoring/banning people based on their views.
4. The Long Term Relationship Talk Is Good, But Men Need “The Journey”
I feel pretty strong about this.
Most of you know that I’ve been dating my girl for over three years now. It is a very happy, harmonious relationship. I can firmly say that the girl has been very good for me, and I for her. I feel I would not be where I am without her. Eventually, if our western society and culture has any chance of survival, strong men are going to have to reproduce and raise some strong families. Lots and lots of casual sex doesn’t lead to this, for a variety of reasons.
But, many men need to learn the hard way and go through at least a time of “getting it out of their system” before they’re ready for something long-term, much less marriage.
Take my path for example:
- Sucked with women
- Got decent with women
- Got tired of going on dates and having the same conversations (tired of western women, really)
- Went on a trip to Poland – blown away
- Back to America, disillusioned even more
- Went on a trip to Colombia – decision made, I must move
- Moved to Europe
- Went on a binge of partying
- Got into a relationship
- Still in said relationship
Again, living in reality is necessary.
Men should not be trying to go on a date and get married right away. Not in today’s world. Not without real knowledge and understanding of both women and their nature, but of the legal system.
5. My Own Views
I’m always careful not to project too much within my own writing and work, because I do feel it’s important to be objective and give general advice that will benefit the majority of people.
What this means is, it’s easy for me to say:
“Men should look towards long term relationships.”
…conveniently ignoring the fact that I am in an LTR, and this reaffirms my own decisions.
It’s also way too easy for me to say:
“Men should go abroad.”
…again, conveniently ignoring the fact that not everyone has an internet business like myself, or the simple fact that many people just likely aren’t ready to move across the world like I was willing to do.
That said, I do think all men need to go through their own slutty Game phase, go on a lot of dates, be with a different chunk of girls.
I’m also mindful of the fact that overindulgence is always bad, and there are likely limits on how many girls men can be with before we begin to have our own psychological problems. It’s the old, “too much candy gives you a tummy ache” problem. Eventually, you go on enough dates with enough stupid girls, and you just begin to think all women are stupid. Or, you sleep with too many slutty girls and all girls are sluts. We all tend to live in our own bubble of reality based off of what we’ve experienced.
6. The “Content Creators” of RVF
I feel for some of the longest-tenured posters, many of whom have contributed thousands of pieces to it.
I’m not that active over there anymore. Most of my best friends from it have moved our correspondences into private WhatsApp chats and of course, actually meeting up in person. It’s not going to have any effects on my business, or my ego, because I’m just not that involved.
If we were to theoretically port this entire Trouble blog over to the forum, and this site didn’t exist at all, yeah, I’d be kind of upset.
There are a lot of people who have made that place what it is, and I can certainly feel for them if they feel a little bit “robbed”.
But ultimately, it’s just something they’ll have to get over. Nothing stopping them from copying all their old posts onto their own blog.
Anyways, I’ll wrap this post up by just saying “thanks” again.
And to suggest you listen to this podcast I did with Roosh a couple years ago. Me thinks it may not be around much longer…
Keep causing trouble,
PS: I’ve also now recorded a podcast about this all.
Listen to it at the link below.
And leave a review here.