The Red Pill Roundtable articles seem to keep getting longer, but are absolutely packed with fantastic information from the four of us. Read the whole thing and our different perspectives. Chances are, your style is similar to one of ours, and you can learn something from every member of the Roundtable.
On the panel:
1.) When you go on dates, is it more just tolerating it or do you enjoy the process? Granted, most of us familiar with game realize that you have to do them at some points.
Christian McQueen: I don’t waste time going on a date unless I’m genuinely interested in the girl. That being said, I rarely go on dates. I’ll take harem girls on ‘dates’, but generally I pull ONSs.
Goldmund Unleashed: When I first got in to game, I still thought dates were necessary and was going on 5/6 per week. It was crazy. So much time and money was put in to going out on a proper ‘date’. I would never go on so many now. It was a necessary part in my development. I was still trying to understand how women worked, so I would listen to my dates silly blatherings, try different tactics, use some routines (the classic cube was always a good go-to, ha), and really reflect on what was working and what wasn’t. I enjoyed it at the time because it was so new and fresh. It was a thrill to read about some new type of game routine, try it out on a girl on a date, and have success. And I was certainly learning a ton about women by being around so many all of the time. The experience was more valuable than anything anyone could have told me or I could have read.
Now, I can’t imagine going out on a date with a girl who doesn’t really impress me in some way. She has to be incredible feminine, sweet, intelligent, and really get my blood going. In the past year, I have only gone on three proper dates. One with a local beauty I met in Montreal, a stunner that I met out one night, and one last week with a beautiful woman I met in the street…I discussed what happened on that one in last weeks round table…didn’t end well or last long. I do take my current French lover out on dates because I enjoy her company.
Masculine Profiles: I have no problems with dates. While some guys hate them, I find them to be an enjoyable part of the seduction process. It’s easy to steer a girl exactly where you want on a date. Her full attention is on you and you can take the interaction anyway you choose. If you actually like women, you can usually find something entertaining to talk with her about on a date. And if she’s just a boring bitch, you can get up and leave.
However, I’m talking about first dates. I don’t like to put much effort into anything outside of a first date for drinks and a second date at my place, if needed. If she drags things out longer than that, she is controlling the frame and that annoys the shit out of me. So I’ll drop her. I’ve realized I don’t have to think about holding frame because when the frame is not mine – I get highly annoyed, but that’s a different topic. Overall, you should be having fun on first dates if you enjoy the women you’re seeing. If first dates are a drag, you should drop the bitches you’re taking on dates. Or become a one-night stand expert.
This Is Trouble: I enjoy them, but only when they’re under a strict set of rules that I’ve set. They always come to me, it’s always at my venue of choice, and it’s always very tactfully planned from start to finish. If she’s not agreeable to any of the above, I’m not going.
2.) What’s your usual date venue(s)? Have you ever had success with out-of-the-box type of dates; i.e. something other than drinks at a bar.
Christian McQueen: Drinks at an upscale lounge, usually a hotel lounge. It creates a ‘sexy’ atmosphere from the start. Sometimes I’ll get some appetizers depending on the time of night, but I never schedule dates before 9pm. Too early and there’s too much fluff time of getting to know each other. I move fast. I’ve had good success with daytime pool party type dates. Let’s say I know of a cool mansion pool party. I’ll swoop the girl up, we’ll go to the party and then find a room or bathroom in the house to have some adult fun.
Goldmund Unleashed: I try to have sex with girls as fast as possible so its always been drinks first. Luckily, I live right down the block from a venue that holds some of the freakiest burlesque/sex shows in the city. A lot of times, I’ll meet a girl out at night and invite to see a show at that place. If she comes with, there is a high possibility she is coming home with me.
I’ll only do other dates with girls I enjoy and have already had sex with. My French chick now is cool with just hanging out at a cafe’, sneaking in to a graveyard, hiking through mountains upstate, biking to a new neighborhood, or watching an old movie. I’m at a point where I’m extremly selective with whom I share my time/energy with, I’d rather be alone than with a girl who adds nothing but tits to the experience.
Masculine Profiles: Drinks at the bar are my go to. Every once in awhile, I’ll meet chicks for lunch after a workout because I have to eat and then run “protein shake” game to get her back to the crib. I also sometimes have chicks meet up and we’ll go grocery shopping together and then she has to come back up to my place to drop off the food.
Second dates are always at my place if I haven’t banged. If she’s hesitant then I’ll offer to cook for her. If she’s game then I’ll pour wine down her throat until she’s naked.
This Is Trouble: Drinks at a bar I can walk to (notice a pattern here?). Sometimes I invite them straight over for “dinner”. I’m fortunate enough to be a reasonably talented cook, so I suggest a few dishes and let her pick one. Make her bring the booze to go with it. It works great because I get to cook which I enjoy, I have food for the rest of the week, and it’s very successful.
3.) Do you have a hard and fast “X Date Rule” in which if she doesn’t put out, you’re nexting her? Why or why not?
Christian McQueen: Two dates absolutely max, but the first date has to be pretty much everything else, if she doesn’t have sex. Like the old line from one of Lloyd Bank’s songs: “If she don’t put out the first night I ain’t gonna call”. Perfect example is a chick I met some years ago when I was blackout drunk. I met her at an afterparty, apparently we talked for 30 minutes, I got her number and that was it. The next day I’m going through my phone and saw her in my text messages. For the life of me I could not remember what she looked like, or meeting her. I texted her the golden line that helps a player establish who she is: “wats ur IG”. IG = instagram. Every girl has one. She sent me her IG handle and I was pleasantly surprised. She was a 9.5 with Angeline Jolie lips. Smoking hot. I set up drinks for the next night close to where I lived at the time, a dark hip bar. She shows up on time, we have a great date and fool around in my car. She plays with my cock, some head etc, but no sex. I give her a date 2 because her looks and personality were great. Date 2 I had her bent over her couch with her pussy popped and she wanted me to fuck her. I was so turned on I knew I was going to bust within two minutes, so I played hard to get, slapped her ass and said “next time doll”. She about fainted. Pretty sure she’s never had a guy have her bent over her couch with her pants around her ankles and her pretty perfect pink pussy popped in the air and not fuck her. Date 3 I smashed to abandon and we had a good run until she started to pressure me for more. Last I heard, she married the very next guy she dated after me. I am the real life Good Luck Chuck ha.
Goldmund Unleashed: Can’t say that I have ever had a rule, there were some girls who I hung out with dozens of times (not really dates) at parties, events, shows and didn’t end up sleeping with until months later. I’m still in touch with some of them now.
Whenever I meet a girl, usually your basic American chick, who says that she has a ‘three-date rule’ or some similar bullshit, I usually make so much fun of her that she ends up feeling foolish. Anyone who holds themselves to those sorts of boundaries is not a person who knows how to enjoy life and live in the moment and I wouldn’t enjoy their company.
Masculine Profiles: Always, always – it’s a frame thing for me.
If she can’t come into my frame, I don’t want her around. If she thinks she can withhold sex from me just because she has a “rule” then she is in control of where things go – and I don’t play that shit. Two dates is usually as long as I’ll wait. After that, it’s next.
If she blows me date two, I’ll sometimes go for a date three to get the bang. However, even that is starting to annoy me. She is using the blowjob to sedate you and keep you around in this case, not because she’s incredibly into you.
This Is Trouble: Unless she’s a virgin, two max. For example, this girl I let stay over twice without sex. With that being said, she’s gotta be a damn great chick for me to wait more than two dates. And to top it off, she’d probably be the time to throw shit tests at me post-bang and I’d never want to see her again anyways. Her actions would result in her getting pumped and dumped.
4.) Which would you prefer: To go on three dates a week with roughly a 50% chance of getting laid, or go for broke on Friday/Saturday nights and go for one night stands?
Christian McQueen: I’m a busy dude and the chick has to conform to my plans. I don’t have time to be chasing a chick around trying to set up a date. I make my plans and I’ll ping her with a text saying what I’m doing and she can join me. If she does, cool, if not, I’m living my life and it’s all good. So generally speaking, I prefer going for broke when I’m out. It’s more exciting to me. That’s why I don’t do online dating because I find it boring. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t work (I was on Tinder for 2 weeks and slayed left and right), but found the excitement aspect sorely missing.
Goldmund Unleashed: Like I said before, when I was learning game, exploring all types of women, and learning from the experience, having dates stacked up throughout the week was in line with my development/skills at the time.
Now, I think its pretty obvious I’m all about incredibly fast, incredibly intense one night stands. I’m also traveling a lot so I don’t want to waste any time on dates.
Masculine Profiles: Hmmm, that’s a great question. I have to break it down mathematically.
The dating option is giving you six notches a month. You run twelve dates per month on average and have sex with six of them. That’s pretty solid.
The nightlife option only gives you eight nights out per month. And even the best night game guys pull maybe 40-50% of the time. So dudes with sick game at night would get four new notches a month.
Just through basic math – I’m taking dating. However, if the night guy goes out on Wednesdays too then things are even. Then my choice be a bit more difficult.
This Is Trouble: Hate to throw a “it depends” out there, but it all depends how hard I had to work for those three dates. If I met them online while sitting on the toilet, they pass the boner test, and the dates are relatively smooth to set up – I’d take the dates. Because potentially then, that’s only a few hours of time. It only takes an hour to know where things are going – whether it be towards never seeing each other again or to the bedroom. On top of that, I’m not dropping loads of cash at a club and not hungover the next morning.
But fuck going out on Friday and Saturday “farming” for numbers and then trying to set it up to see them again. I’d much rather go for broke on those nights.
TLDR; I’d take the dates.
5.) From your experience, what is the best type of “model” to run for dates? (Examples: one-date model where you go for broke, or a 2 date model where you do a one hour first date and follow it by inviting her straight over for the second date).
Christian McQueen: One date model with a model 🙂 and go for broke. I never got these little coffee dates for an hour. Not my style, but every player has a different type of game that works for them. Sometimes it won’t happen the first night and if she’s very cool and extremely hot then I’ll invite her over for another ‘date’, but I don’t consider a girl coming right over to your spot as a date.
Goldmund Unleashed: Again, it depends on where you are when it comes to game. If you are still using the training wheels, its probably best to play nice, take it a little slow, and do the 2 date thing…thats how I got laid the most years ago.
But if you are confident in your abilities, know exactly what you want, know how to dominate a woman, bang her over the head with your game-club and drag her back to your cave asap.
Masculine Profiles: I almost always go for broke on the first date. If she’s willing to meet up with you, it’s because she wants to have sex. However, I never go for the kiss in public on dates. Ever. I prefer to escalate kino quickly, while keep conversation normal. Just vibing and kino.
Then invite her back to mine for one glass of wine. At the crib, we down wine and I almost immediately turn the conversation sexual. The kino ramps up. Once the wine is finished, I go for the kiss. If she’s hesitant after the first kiss, I pull back and pour another glass of wine. Then I start to escalate again after we drink another glass. If she’s with it during the first kiss, I pick her up and throw her on the mattress.
This Is Trouble: The best model is to push it as far as possible on the first date. I’ve been shocked to get first-date bangs after early evening coffee dates or a happy hour with apps or pizza (we’re talking girls under 21 here). However, I’ve learned (the hard way) that if it’s clearly not ON that day, if you push too hard you’ll scare the cat away. This is different from getting last minute resistance in which she ultimately stops you. Once you develop your skills, it’s easy to figure this out.
In those cases, I make sure it’s ME that cuts the date short and leaves her wanting more. Then it’s an invite over for dinner and drinks at my pad for date two.