Fellow blogger Borja of The Single Rebel dropped some gold on my recent post about what to do when a girl doesn’t want to have sex with you.
Borja knows his shit, as evidenced by his crazy-good guest post about Lithuanian girls.
Just last Sunday I had this happen to me – with no other than an ex harem member who I was planning on welcoming back after she spent a year working abroad.
I showed her my new flat and I naturally grabbed her nice ass and pulled her towards me. She didn’t react negatively but was stiff and told me she couldn’t just act like a year hadn’t gone by: that I’d been meeting many girls and she was confused about a guy she’d met abroad etc.
Of course, I stopped escalating and finished my coffee in the living room with her while I sent a couple whatsapp texts.
A few minutes later she dropped the question (seems inevitable doesn’t it?):
– I hope you’re not mad? You must understand.
– Of course not! (big grin on my face which threw her off)
– Oh, why not?
– I understand and it’s your decision so I’m not mad. Also, there’s a girl coming in 20 minutes so we should get going I’ll walk you to the metro.
– (Stunned) Oh…I thought we were going to spend some more time together.
– Sure, but I happen to be really horny today and you’re not on board – so when you stop being confused you let me know yeh? (wink).
Just like that, I walked her to the metro and waited for my other girl to arrive. Then fucked her brains out.
So the answer to ‘What to do when a girl doesn’t want to have sex with you?’
Have more options.
Having a harem is simply the best way to run your life.
Yeah sorry pal but that’s a dick move. Treating that girl like an utter piece of trash.
Perfectly valid reason for not wanting to throw her legs open within minutes. She just wanted to feel like a human being.
It’s definitely on the send of asshole, but she just got back from abroad. I doubt she was a saint.
Far better to do this for long term backbone and self development rather than letting her walk all over you.
Disagree on this one. I feel his actions are massively miscalibrated. Don’t care what she’s been up to, she’s still got the right to be treated like a human and not just a lump of meat the second the walks in the door after a year.
I disagree with you. It is not bad treatment to disappoint somebody’s expectations. He does not owe her any kind of company he is not interested in. He is not “treating her like trash” – whatever that means -, he is just acting in his best self-interest.
If the situation were reversed, would you make the same judgment, I wonder? If a girl invited a guy and the guy was not up for sex, and she would simply invite somebody else instead? Would you make the same kind of judgment? Or would you perhaps say: Well, the guy obviously had to know what she wanted?
This whole “treated like a human” thing does not mean anything. Humans are not sexual beings? What is the essence of being treated like a human? Respect? How did he disrespect her? Kindness? How was he unkind? In that he did not ignore his own wish for sexual gratification so that she would feel better about herself? That is not respect or kindness, that is being a slave.
Dude, they’d not seen each other in a year, she probably just wanted to at least be able to fool herself that he vaguely valued her as a human being before she had sex with him. Don’t forget that sex is much more of an emotional act for (most) women than it is with men.
Girl doesn’t put out within minutes of walking into your flat after a year of not seeing each other? “Fuck you then, I’ll shag someone else, bye!”
If you can’t fathom why this is a really selfish, shitty way to treat another human being, you’ve got a long way to go still on your journey to become a balanced man.
He did not say fuck you, he said he understands and is not mad.
What would have been the well calibrated way to act? Let’s assume you are in his position. You want sex and you know you can have it from another girl. You are not interested in spending time with her in a platonic manner. How would you act and why?
Your reasoning basically revolves around “She just wanted”. Is that how a man is supposed to live his life? By making what “she just wanted” his prime directive?
It’s such a fine line and I’ll never criticize a man for doing what is best for him. Good lord knows enough of us don’t.
Can agree with Hoodlum that blatantly telling her he was going to bang someone else may have crossed a line.
Question is did it work?
What does it mean for it to work? Do you mean whether she came back to him? Does it matter? Does everything have to be a big manipulative game with some far goal in the future? Is it not enough, in this case, for him to savour the moment and go for what he wants?
Crossing a line, I don’t know. I can understand the sentiment, but I think it is mainly rooted in guilt and shame that has nothing to do with the situation at hand. The shame or guilt of not giving her what she wants. Of not being a vessel of hers to give approval to her as a human being. If she is self-loving and confident, she may think he is a dick, but also understand it. I mean, surely there are girls out there who meet men they are only sexually interested in. Is that immoral? Why? Some people we want to have non-sexual relationships with, others not. Who is to say that she is the kind of person he wanted to be around in anything but a sexual way? Who is to say that she can give him the kind of non-sexual company he likes?
I really believe as soon as she mentioned the bothering it’s all fake game.
But yes that is what I meant by did it work. As in, did she come back at a later date.
There is more to life than just selfishly fulfilling your own needs at the expense of the emotions of others.
Well, how would you have acted and why?
Is the wish to be a good person and spend time with her not also a wish of the ego to feel good about itself? For the ego to be able to say “I am a good person and I did something nice to her, even if I did not feel like it”?
I would have anticipated a girl I’d not seen in a year might not want to instantly put out. If I needed sex that bad, I’d have invited a sure thing over instead.
If I did not even respect the girl I’d not seen for a year sufficiently to even make an effort to catch up with her a bit, make her feel a bit valued as a person – then I wouldn’t have invited her at all.
In general, seek to pursue your own aims, but not at the expense of unnecessarily causing emotional harm to others.
Well, do you know the context? Maybe their relationship and the planning of the meet-up was such that he could reasonably expected for it to be a sex date? Such short excerpts leave a lot of room for interpretation and context and in the end, only the two of them know best.
Maybe it was also an error on her side not to tell him that he had nothing to expect sexually. Maybe she consciously ommitted that fact, because she just wanted some non-sexual friendship stuff and thought she would not get it if she did not trick him into it. Which is also manipulative.
But sure, I agree there is not much point in inviting someone over for tee and biscuits and then send them away because they don’t fuck you, just out of malice. Supposing that is what actually happened.
I mean, sure, if they explicitly agreed on sex before she came over. But knowing even the slightest thing about women, she would have to be a pretty big slut to do that.
But in general, it’s over-analysing. Just treat people well. Worrying to excess about being treated like a doormat, when you know you are not a total beta chump, is a big tell of deep-seated insecurity.
True, but you don’t know if that was actually his motivation. You are just projecting those assumptions upon the post.
Even then, insecurity should not be shamed. It deserves compassion. How else to grow out of it?
No, I wasn’t saying that was his motivation, it was something Kyle mentioned, tangential, my bad if confusing.
I don’t know his motivations. It may have been this, it may have been that he just doesn’t give a shit.
Either way, I am calling it out as a shitty way to treat someone, unless the (unlikely) explicit promise of instant sex upon arrival was made.
Insecurity is not to be shamed, no, but to be recognised, and at the least to try not to inflict pain on others as you’re trying to work through your own problems.
Well, I agree in most parts, apart from the one where she would have to explicitly promise it. Sometimes leaving out an important part of truth can be a lie in itself.
I really think that it is a bit of an asshole thing to do, UNTIL she mentioned the other guy while abroad.
To me that really opens the doors up, not to be a total asshole, but certainly to re-evaluate the situation and if removing her was what was thought to be the best, by all means.
Does not mean the actual delivery was best.
Well, he could have said “get out my flat, you stupid bitch”. 😀
Also could have said, “I have a work emergency, gotta run.”
Tomato, tohmato, ha!
Might I add that like attracts like? If he is insecure and she wants to meet him, it is likely she is insecure herself. Else her heart would tell her not to put herself into that situation.
I’d say all girls like confident guys deep down.
True, but then deep down, men also like confident women. Women confident in their femininity, who do not need to bitch around and make you feel bad about not behaving the way they would like you to to feel good about themselves. In this context, it is important to distinguish between confidence and compensatory over-confidence, though, which counts for women as well as men. What I meant with my comment was that an insecure shy girl may be attracted to an over-confident man. Hence why narcissistic men do well with girls short-term, although they are hardly deeply confident in general.
Easy to fuck up between feminine confidence and overcompensating masculine confidence, though.
How do you mean?
Too many girls scream “I am a strong confident woman!”
But it’s easy to tell they aren’t.
Goes back to feminism and whatnot.
Yeah, those hyenas obviously are not confident. Why would they need to scream it out loud? Why would you need to attack people who disagree with you when you are firmly centered in yourself?
I recall having met one girl I think of as confident. She was not into me and pretty much was indifferent to me. She was not trying to be nice to me, but neither was she mean. She was at a little home concert where I was also and she sat beside a man whom I would also call confident. At some point she just put her head on his shoulders in a very feminine manner. It did not seem anxious or needy in the least. It was just the natural thing for her to do and she was confident about it, as was he.
Those are the best types of girls, the ones who embrace their weakness.
Men could do the same at times.
Relevant -> https://thisistrouble.com/2016/06/20/why-being-too-alpha-may-destroy-your-relationship/
I don’t like that article that much, although it has some truth to it. The problem I see with it is that a girl who needs you to put yourself in her shoes – while not doing the same the other way – guarantees for a one-sided relationship. It may be mature to be able to do that, but then, I guess it would be even more mature to bond with a woman who is also more mature.
Any girl worth putting yourself in her shoes to understand how she feels would be a girl you had invested in, screened, and therefore already concluded is worth the effort.
I.E. not a one sided relationship.
Maybe. I am not very experienced with women, so I can only conjecture in this case. But my heart tells me that a mature relationship is balanced and does not require you to take bullshit from her.
It doesn’t, but it takes an experienced man to learn how to screen and handle their BS to an extent and shut it down.
Sometimes that shutdown requires more comfort, which is the entire point of that alpha article.
I’ll come back at you on this when I have had a few girls!
Look forward to it man.
I think if invited straight over to a flat and you were formerly fucking, that’s a pretty clear indicator of sex being on the cards.
Agree with Hoodlum that it doesn’t mean it had to be after five minutes (but who knows what the actual timeframe was, only the OP knows!)
Yeah, that’s my point. Some things don’t have to be explicitly stated and then it becomes the responsibility of each party to make it clear that a change has ocurred.
Which she didn’t do…typical girl 😉
And it’s a fine line between letting people walk on you.
I think in the end, the best thing is to listen to your own heart / gut and make the decision that the moment necessitates. The example you give in your blog post may be a good decision and it may be a bad one, depending on why you act that way, depending on the context, your relationship to her, etc.
So basically, if you ask yourself in the moment “What do I really want?” and then follow your own desire, you can not be wrong. That may mean to spend time with her without sex and it may mean to do what this guy did. Just depends. There are no rules, are there really?
Of course not, and everyone has different ethical codes, too.
I’ve asked Borja to chime in here, hopefully he does.
My opinion is still that this is a better reaction than what most guys would have done which is lie over and accept their new place in the friend zone.
I absolutely agree. If your lifelong problem was to be a doormat, it is only natural and healthy to steer to the opposite direction and perhaps overdoing it a little. And since it does seem to be a typical problem of men today to not stand by what they want, I also see this as a positive thing.
Exactly. Better to overdo it like crazy and correct down the road.
But I am friends with Borja and he is not a doormat, so there’s that 😉
My life (and Blog) motto:
Your life. Your Choice.
Careful Tom! You keep studying and pretty soon you’ll be managing a harem yourself. Wouldn’t want that.
I’m not studying. Just meditating and reading shitty ROK articles. 🙂
That place used to be the pinnacle of game articles.
We wouldn’t want him buying The Harem Handbook either! 😉
What about the part that she mentioned she was confused about a guy she met abroad? That’s the key to this in my opinion guys.
I think it’s fair enough to meet other people and mention it: her life, her choice.
But I also feel much less attracted to a woman who claims to be ‘confused’
Nothing attractive about it. Just wasted energy and mind games.
A few days after the event, she asked me for help translating her CV into English and I happily obliged – she is a human being who means something to me.
That does not mean I am not going to tell her when I know we are in the mood for something different and have blue balls for a whole day. She’s always understood that and if she doesn’t now that’s her decision. I take my own decisions.
So question is did you bang? 😉
Will bang soon enough if she manages to convince me 😛
Girls get real mad when they want sex and a guy doesn’t. Ha!
And for some reason, they don’t feel like pretending it’s nothing. That is, if you don’t count a passive-aggressive “It’s fine” as a comforting reassurance of your own wish not to have sex.
Typically they go on social media tirades. I’ll have to hunt some down!
Spot on, Tom.
I treat everyone in my life with respect, niceness, love and honour.
But above everyone else I treat MYSELF that way.
Is there a timeframe that is acceptable then?
I just had a feeling – are you Scottish (perhaps Glasgow)?
Mate – I think I made myself clear when I said she was an ex harem member who I wanted to welcome back. Which means she was happy as a squirrel throwing her legs open every week or two before she left, and sent me dozens of nudes during her stay abroad.
I can assure you she did feel like a human being back then – a very happy one in fact.
Sure, don’t doubt that. I still think what you did was a dick move, nudes or no nudes. She still hadn’t seen you physically for a year, and probably would have been more than happy to have sex with you if you’d just made it seem even slightly like you gave a shit about her on a level above “piece of meat”.
I respect your opinion – but I have a very different one 😉
I do not lie either through words or actions. Making it seem like I see her above a fun sex partner now would be a big fat lie.
Ok man, I’m not here to lecture you. I just have a strong inclination to not see guys in the manosphere be encouraged to be unnecessary assholes to girls. A lot of dudes are very impressionable, don’t forget, not being old or wise enough to have found their own way yet.
Don’t forget, knowing game gives us power, but also the capability to inflict a lot of emotional damage on girls in the process. I know, because I’ve done it to girls myself in ignorance, and regret it in hindsight.
When a girl is in your thrall, she’ll tolerate a lot of emotional misery just to be with you. Yes, she technically has the ability to walk away, but emotions don’t usually work that way, and women don’t usually have the greatest degree of agency.
“Don’t forget, knowing game gives us power, but also the capability to inflict a lot of emotional damage on girls in the process.”
Emotional damage? Na. They’ll get over it. Give the women more credit.
Game isn’t THAT powerful. It gets you laid. It doesn’t give a guy the ability to take control over a woman’s whole life. Just her tingles.
“I just have a strong inclination to not see guys in the manosphere be encouraged to be unnecessary assholes to girls”
Wha? Dude where have you been. That’s a game/rp staple. Also it’s more direct and assertive than it is “asshole” game. Pretty normal behavior.
“Emotional damage? Na. They’ll get over it. Give the women more credit.
Game isn’t THAT powerful. It gets you laid. It doesn’t give a guy the ability to take control over a woman’s whole life. Just her tingles.”
I’d disagree with this. Game at the next level (as in when you MASTER longer term game) really does allow you to own her heart and soul. You could murder her sister and be forgiven kind of level.
It’s that level that latter modules of The Harem Handbook are it, very advanced and next-level stuff.
“Wha? Dude where have you been. That’s a game/rp staple. Also it’s more direct and assertive than it is “asshole” game. Pretty normal behavior.”
While I don’t agree that Borja was an asshole in this case (once she mentioned the other dude, I think it’s open season), I see both sides to it.
Are there really guys talking about walking AWAY from being a 20 year old beauty’s second sex partner, because you will never return to her city? Are there any talks of ethics in this situation? Because I don’t see it.
I just see the “yeah get yours bro” mantra.
And I just walked away from several of those situations recently because I decided having those miles on my conscience wasn’t worth it.
Another example: this girl (https://thisistrouble.com/2015/12/11/colombian-girlfriend/) still texts me every week telling me, “I am waiting for you.”
It’s true that these girls are far more common abroad than in the US or Canada, which has a shortage of “pure” girls, but once you start venturing to these faraway lands the tide changes quickly, and to an extent — so should your attitude about how to treat them.
Good comment, D.
“I’d disagree with this. Game at the next level (as in when you MASTER longer term game) really does allow you to own her heart and soul.”
I guess I’m not “at that level” yet. Nor do I particularly want to be. Seems like a lot of work. I try to stick to fucking them well, laughing, and generally having a good time with almost zero drama. That doesn’t take a lot of work.
Owning someone’s heart and soul sounds dangerously close to romanticism-talk.
A connection is great though. Sure do miss that part. But I have never had the word “heart” or “soul” in mind while connecting (at least post RP haha)
“…and to an extent — so should your attitude about how to treat them.”
If one is being mean for no reason, then ya, the girl should leave and the guy has problems. But the idea that we should be talking about ethics and having shit on your conscience? It’s just dating and relationships.
As long as there was/is no verbal abuse, physical abuse, property damage, pets or kids involved – what’s the big deal? Being an asshole is WAY better than that stuff I just mentioned.
Great post and comment thread convo by the way.
“Owning someone’s heart and soul sounds dangerously close to romanticism-talk.”
It feels good with the right girls. It’s not a lot of work. It’s just intoxicating. And it’s way easier to happen here versus out West. I mean, I’m sure you’ve read about how much I am enjoying my girl I met in Kiev.
I agree, ethics and conscience is nothing in the West. Nothing. Who gives a damn about them.
But when you have a 20 year old girl, who has slept with one guy in her life, has only had sex 5 times in her life TOTAL, who absolutely ADORES you – don’t you think it seems kinda shitty to say…lie to her to get in her pants? Give her hope for a future that you don’t want?
Those are the kind of things I mean. And sure there’s no abuse but any false hope is setting the poor girls up to be heartbroken, and they truly will be out here. It’s so different.
I think it’s shitty of her to mention another guy.
Isn’t that kind of an off limits thing with FWBs? If a girl I was casually banging brought another dude up that might be grounds for terminating that relationship on the spot.
The break of a year muddies things somewhat.
Out of curiosity what was the total timeframe on this?
She was a sexual partner for over a year and a half 😉
I meant how long was she in your pad?
Went for a walk for an hour, then showed her my place while we had a coffee and she was at mine for about 45 mins.
So I’d say 2 hours more or less 😉
Yeah that’s a huge difference. I think my boy Hoodlum assumed she was over for five minutes and you just went for it. But if you hung out for two hours and then made your move, I think you’re totally okay to give her the boot like you did.
Really shows why having options is a must. Thanks for sharing.
Happy to. Thanks for commenting.