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The Confusing Path of PUA vs. Self Improvement

Recently, I stopped a girl out on the street and was told she had a bus to catch. I wrote a post musing about why women react this way. It mystified me that a girl wouldn’t give her potential life mate more than five seconds to make a pitch.

A friend of mine left this great comment:

“girls are simply not putting men as a priority.”

Not sure I’d 100% agree with this.

Simply put, your apparent value was not sufficient in that moment to override her desire to get home. If you’d been dressed in a custom Armani suit, pulled alongside her in a Ferrari (exaggerating for effect here) – different story perhaps.

It’s good to practise approach skills, but they’re no substitute for self-improvement, as I’m sure you know. You could spend years and years chasing women on the street, whilst improving your value by nothing (as a LOT of PUAs do) – or you can pursue it as a fleeting side-interest, whilst you invest 90% of the time into getting rich, and then several years down the line when you’re loaded, the whole thing just becomes easy mode, and you can access a whole new tier of women that won’t even look twice at you now, no matter how tight your game is.

I know you know this, but I always like to vent on this subject.

Which leads me to this: there are a lot of “paths” for men to take. Which one should you?

I’ve already written before that I never responded well to the “PUA world.” What I mean by this is memorizing lines and routines, and making mass number of approaches. It just never appealed to me – I could never grab it and run with it. I wasn’t motivated. I didn’t approach. I…didn’t have the confidence. I can admit it.

That’s not to say that it can’t “work” for some people. Plenty of people go down this path and experience great success.

What worked far better for me was to take the “self improvement” path. I learned the nature of women, made some money, lifted some weights, and overall became much happier with my life. It was only then that “Game” didn’t seem so hard.

But then there’s the “just be yourself” mindset. Which works…but only if you’re a confident, successful man.

Being yourself doesn’t work **if yourself sucks.**


To be honest, I kind of combine both of these elements here on this blog.

I believe that you must be the best man that you can in order to truly be happy. That happiness and success will undoubtedly pay off with women – I’m living and breathing proof. However, at the same time, I think learning a few lines and techniques has the potential to skyrocket a man’s ability with women – and it doesn’t come at the same price of “unplugging” (i.e. admitting to yourself that you suck and that you don’t understand the world/women) that the self improvement path does.

So I really get the appeal of PUA.

It’s human nature to want fast results.

What do you think? Leave a comment below with your thoughts on the “PUA-sphere” vs the “self improvement sphere”.

(Keep it nice. This is a constructive conversation.)

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  • horace template

    I understand the allure of PUA, especially if the PUA users are the protypical nerd type who think in that software programming mindset.

    For example, before PUA tricks and such, they approach (or whatever) and fail miserably with a chick.

    Then, after PUA, it’s like a hacking code set. And it can work. BOOM! 1 + 1 = 2. Input leads to output.

    It’s quite empowering to go from zero to results. Plus when you use PUA tricks, it reduces a chick to program that can be solved. Chicks are no longer this (false) enigma and Sphinx-like riddle.

    I agree that PUA can be un-appealing as it can become a crutch. But if it helps a bloke score, hey, whatever, go for it. Even better, it pisses off chicks who deny that stuff works. Women like to think they are s-p-e-c-i-a-l. “That doesn’t work on me, I’m a sophisticated woman, blah blah blah.”

    • I’d rather guys use whatever they need to do to GET THE BALL ROLLING. Doesn’t matter what it is. You’re totally dead on about the hacking thing/cheat code though!

  • I got started after reading ‘the game’ and using some of the openers and routines that Strauss and Mystery came up with…and guess what…it worked!

    Problem was those gimmicks only worked with 6s & 7s–not the girls I really wanted to be with. But it was a helluva good time for that first year using them, going nuts with the power, and fucking 75 girls in one year…then I got sick only getting 6s, 7s…and only that rare 8 every once in a while.

    So then the self-improvement kick came in: style, artistic output, fitness, diet, open-mindedness, all increased at the fastest rate I could muster…and guess what…the girls bumped up in quality! Not only that, but nothing was contrived anymore. Something like “hey, I like your style” to get the conversation going down a natural path are the ‘openers’ I use now.

    Now I’m much more interested in cultivating a short-term relationships with very high quality chicks who can also serve as a muse for my work.

    There is another level after self improvement that probably deserves another conversation all on its own–helping others and society as a whole. Thats really should be the end goal out of all of this or else it all comes off as a bunch of self-serving masturbation.


    The PUA stuff was good training wheels that got me rolling/laid/and ended the sexual frustration, but its certainly not something anyone should rely on for long.

    • Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

      The lines and routines work. I would never deny that they didn’t. But that’s all it is – a line. No substance. On top of that, it puts you in a constant loop where your only self validation is from girls. And frankly, that’s kind of a shaky foundation to build your life on in my opinion. Girls are looking for a rock. You have to be it.

      Great comment my man!

  • ten zły

    To be honest, PUA never appealed to me personally. And it should, cos I was fat, lazy, addicted to porn nerd. But honestly I never wanted hedonistic lifestyle. Being nerd has a lot of short comings, but being low on $ is not one of them. You can say all you want, but it is easy to buy sex. Yeah it not the same as seduction, but at the end of the day sex is sex.

    When I was still 18 years old virgin it seems to me like it is something special in it. And I was horny, very, very horny… So I just did whatever I could to have sex. And I got it… and for while it was great. Then you realize that it is just sex. Nothing special about it. Empty pleasure. Not much different than drinking or other hedonistic pleasures. Maybe sensation is a bit different, but that is it.

    Yesterday I have buried my grandfather. He had been sick for long time now. Basically dead for more than a year. My mother has cancer. I would gladly not have sex, drinking or lose all $ if I could chat with my grandfather again or have my mother healthy. Because what matters is human connection, family, friends not some hedonistic pleasures.

    So in my opinion PUA is for those who can’t understand what is important in life.

    Self-improvement on other hand is different, because it is all about making yourself better human, whatever you believe better is. But you cannot self-improve and be empty, shallow human in your opinion. Cos it is not only about outer appearance, but also about what is inside your head. For me hardest thing to learn (and I am still learning it) is controlling my anger, addictions, laziness. It is started as a way to get women into my bed, but quickly become something much more.

    • Excellent comment. I’m very sorry for your loss man.

      I wish things had worked out for us to have a drink while I was in Poland, but I’ll be back and we’ll meet up then..

      Keep fighting the good fight!

  • hoodlum81

    The crux of it has always been for me, to consider what game is. Game is a system that was devised by studying the behaviours of high value men, in order to emulate the same qualities.

    Why spend your life trying to perfect the art of copying high value men, instead of just doing what you need to do to actually /become/ one? (well – the former is far easier than the latter)

    I of course agree that game is a great band-aid for recovering betas, to give them a leg up into building that self-esteem that is required to progress in life. But it should always be seen as a stepping stone, and not a destination in and of itself as some notable proponents seem to view it.

    I’ve also always maintained that you will forever be trapped under a glass ceiling if you just stick to PUA methodology, and never truly become a naturally high value confident man.

    Humans have an innate ability, women especially so, to figure out when someone is pretending to be something they are not. 1000 subtle tells give you away, incongruencies with your words and actions, hesitations, facial expressions etc. Women’s ability to procure the highest value mate depends on their ability to be able to filter genuinely high value men from those merely pretending.

    You can fool a bunch of low social intelligence girls consistently with this stuff, but is that really the pinnacle of achievement we are aiming for? Do we not want to access the truly top tier of women, the classy, beautiful, cultured, educated, high social intelligence girls? Believe me, you will not fake it with them. They see straight through the bullshit in about 3 seconds flat, the same length of time it takes a high value man to see through the gimmickery of low value tools.

    Fortunately, these prominent PUAs are a minority. Unfortunately, they attract slavishly devoted followings who hero-worship them (conveniently buying all their products along the way), and get led down a path which puts their personal development on hiatus for years.

    Additionally, turning pickup into a glorified role-playing game just really sucks all the joy out of life. Guys wonder why they feel dead inside, executing a script of “engage action X in response to comment Y from the girl”.

    • Excellent comment (again).

      This comment makes me sad in a way though.

      In the end it seems it’s all just to get women.

      • hoodlum81

        Well let’s not forget it’s our primary biological drive – why else do you think we are programmed to seek out status and wealth, if not to procure access to the best women!

        Whilst it may be the most important thing, it is of course not the only thing in life though. There are family, friends, community, art, literature, music, religion, travel.

        Having procured the highest quality woman you are satisfied with, it’s really about settling down and raising a family. I trust no man who makes it his life’s work to just endlessly sleep with women, there’s something broken inside of him.

      • That’s very true! Just a slightly…depressing way to think about it. Maybe depressing isn’t the right word. But you get what I mean.

        Going through all the pain and growth and the end goal truly is to just get the hottest and sweetest girl possible.

        but yes. I want the tykes someday.

      • ten zły

        Well, it is not true. As far as I can tell your animal instincts change overtime. When you have family, then you no longer want hottest, sweetest girl. At least it is no longer your top priority. Ask any good father and he will tell you.

        And there are some that use that grow for good of all. Tribe protecting and power hunger instincts. For example Caesar, Augustus, Churchill and so on.

        We all are animals, but it is fucking mistake to think we are simple animals. All animals have different instincts.

      • Ahhhh, of course it’s not a priority – but are you gonna say a father would pass on having sex with a Victoria’s Secret model if it just fell into his lap?

        It’s one thing to actively hunt but that desire just gets buried on the mountain of work that kids and a family are.

      • ten zły

        Well, It probably depends on what kind of man he is.
        We all are slaves to our nature, but some of us are more so than others.

        Let me ask you a question in return: Would you sleep with every willing cute girl no matter what?

      • If they’re literally showing up at my door and I don’t have to do anything – hell yeah.

        If I have to go out and work for it, no.

      • ten zły

        That is probably answer to your question.
        Someone with good loving and beautiful wife would probably pass on it. Divorced man is other story.

      • You don’t think that if there was no chance of being caught, a man would not jump on that opportunity?

      • ten zły

        I probably would not.
        I would think that something smells fishy. Top quality girl wants to sleep with me and there are no possible bad consequences? Too good to be true.

        And there is also question how much horny man is.

        But all this is pure theory, because in real life there is almost never zero consequences to anything. Especially sex.

      • I mean, as long as we’re talking in theory, I’m definitely saying there’s nothing “fishy” or tricks about it.

        My point I’m making is that men want to sleep with multple women regardless of the circumstances.

        Consequences be damned 😉

      • ten zły

        Then probably yeah, most men would fuck her. There is no point in trying to deny it.

        But although our sex drive is powerful instinct, it is not like we are completely slave to it.

        Beside if we were just trying to simplify humans to simple animals doing what their instincts tells them to, there is more powerful instinct in us. More powerful by far. It is instinct to survive. And yet there are humans that willingly kill themselves. Yeah, sick humans, but still cable of doing it. And there are humans that risk their lives for a bit of adrenaline, or soldiers willing to die to protect their country (for example our polish hero Władysław Raginis). There is more to us than just instinct or sex drive. Although most humans are no better than pigs, there are few who can overcome their primitive nature and do something truly beautiful.

      • That’s a fair point. Some people live for diferent things, plain and simple.

        Survival is always the most pressing issue if it actually arises, but in today’s world you just don’t have a daily “need to survive” due to modern luxuries.

      • ten zły

        Times are changing, woman can easily get raped and killed in Western Europe now if they enter Muslim area dressed wrong.

        We live only in illusion of safe society.

      • That’s VERY true and it’ll be fascinating if their mindsets shift from “we don’t need men” to “save us!!!”

        I may write about this soon. Great idea.

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